tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post7583360398410809271..comments2024-03-25T22:48:31.750-04:00Comments on Dreams in the Lich House: Turning One's Thoughts to WesterosJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-15979914004828914992012-06-05T13:13:17.495-04:002012-06-05T13:13:17.495-04:00Guardians of Order made the d20 version of ASOIAF,...Guardians of Order made the d20 version of ASOIAF, and Green Ronin holds the license these days - both are pretty good games. I would check them out. You might just like them :-)Toadfacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11394158149284593761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-24425272042673656982012-06-05T10:56:09.441-04:002012-06-05T10:56:09.441-04:00I'm just in Book 5, and it features the east q...I'm just in Book 5, and it features the east quite a bit - ancient ruins are intimated, there are these massive city -states driven by slave labor, and wandering mercenary companies straight out of Swords & Sorcery literature. It'd much easier placing a traditional D&D game on the other continent.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-26790244278862796682012-06-05T08:12:39.404-04:002012-06-05T08:12:39.404-04:00The published end game for AD&D and then the B...The published end game for AD&D and then the BX games included building castles and getting an army, setting the DM perfectly to pivot the campaign towards 'Game of Thrones' play.<br /><br />Maybe the discussion needs to be this: Would you prefer a game with social combat mechanics before you'd be willing to run a game with more intrigue? That seems to be a fault line with some of the answers.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-15125516496899243872012-06-05T08:08:18.255-04:002012-06-05T08:08:18.255-04:00This might be where the series eventually goes... ...This might be where the series eventually goes... I could see a conqueror queen like Daenerys unite Westeros (after conquering it) to throw back the threat of The Others, and GRR could end up with a high fantasy kind of ending after all.<br /><br />But at least initially, monsters need to be remote or legendary so power hungry people can do what they do best - backstab each other. (I think we're in agreement).Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-71009838925220817972012-06-05T08:05:04.798-04:002012-06-05T08:05:04.798-04:00Yes, I've always been a bit uncomfortable that...Yes, I've always been a bit uncomfortable that core D&D appears to be medieval technology, but the social structures to support a free adventuring class don't exist - inns, taverns, merchants and shops; it warps historical games (and is a good reason why it's easier using a S&S setting instead of a quasi-historical). For quasi-historical, I tend to gravitate towards the Roman era, Early Modern, and the Vikings.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-71479728901023593952012-06-05T08:01:33.445-04:002012-06-05T08:01:33.445-04:00but there are no apparent global monster threats t...<i>but there are no apparent global monster threats that would trigger the human kingdoms to unite</i><br /><br />While I get what you're going for here, I think the Others/White Walkers could easily serve this role in a campaign. The key is not excluding the monster threats, it's having the humans be too petty and self serving to care about them.Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745062840676790649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-16367978356912458252012-06-05T06:13:56.400-04:002012-06-05T06:13:56.400-04:00While we haven't see as much of them to know, ...While we haven't see as much of them to know, there maybe be room for more typical D&D fair in the lands east of Westeros. I mean, we've got face-changing assassins and ancient, powerful sorcerers over there, at least. I would suspect there are ruins, too.Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-50061167289757773072012-06-05T04:16:27.832-04:002012-06-05T04:16:27.832-04:00there's certainly no freeman profession of &qu...<em>there's certainly no freeman profession of "professional adventurer" the way we see it in more typical D&D</em><br /><br />d'oh! I'm embarrassed by how long it's taken my brain to engage on this, but I think you've identified the missing puzzle piece of early modern DnD. What is the canonical secondary-school-history-class Toynbee distinction between the medieval and the early modern? <br />The rise of a middle class of professionals and merchants able and willing to speculate with capital.<br /><br />Why does 1500 mark the usual beginning of the Early Modern Period?<br />Because that's when overseas exploration and colonization pours accelerant on capitalist ventures and changes the world. That is, the Americas and other Indies provide a means for exchanging capital + risk for MUCH MORE capital. Kinda like a dungeon. And a class of explorer/adventurers grows to fill that niche (and is largely industrialized, BTW, by about 1650-70).<br /><br />I've always been uncomfortable with the implicit existence of a broad class of adventurers in DnD, but it's right there in Greyhawk and similar settings: there are many dungeons, each has gold-bearing monsters inside, ergo there must be a class of professional dungeoneers, supported by guilds, services-for-hire temples, all the Ultima/Elder Scrolls/WoW bric-a-brac.<br />In other words, stereotypical DnD is already early modern, it's just in denial about this, insisting that (based on tech level alone) it's "medieval."<br /><br />I propose that if you want actually medieval DnD then adventurers have to be extremely rare - the PCs might be the only group of adventurers they know about, and they might well have to research long and hard, chase down unreliable rumours, go far out past the borderlands of civilisation, to get to the dungeons and find the treasure - just like John Mandeville or Gulliver or Marco Polo. Or like ancient Egyptian tomb robbers, relying on (maybe) networks of fences and local informants, old ambiguous maps, arduous speculative digging. <br /><br />Nothing has to change mechanically for this dungeoneers-light setting: men at arms - loyal retainers to feudal lords - still have the same skills and might still be cast out of their usual jobs. Ditto thieves, mages and holy men. But the skills of dungeoneering itself would be secret by virtue of their scarcity. And if you brought a mysterious wand back to town, you'd be unlikely to find someone to identify it for you, so magic items would retain their mystery a lot longer.<br /><br />I'm starting to like this vision best of all, actually.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-90279068265077260692012-06-04T21:44:21.357-04:002012-06-04T21:44:21.357-04:00Haven't seen the HBO series yet but I've b...Haven't seen the HBO series yet but I've been a fan of Martins since the '80's. Some of his other works may be more typical of a D&D or really an EPT setting. There's one short story for example about a stranded space traveler who takes to exploring an endless undercity maze in an alien ruin trying to find a way off planet. There is another about humans who have evolved into an undergroud society following some disaster. It's really great stuff.DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-61553115614330411582012-06-04T20:02:44.291-04:002012-06-04T20:02:44.291-04:00Wasn't something along these lines the predece...Wasn't something along these lines the predecessor of the True20 rules? Something rose....?<br /><br />Blue Rose! That is what it was. I would think that would be wonderful for a game of thrones!<br /><br />TBThe Banehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07618418974424858748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-59756063407683264582012-06-04T16:32:07.249-04:002012-06-04T16:32:07.249-04:00D&D is not the system I would use. Maybe somet...D&D is not the system I would use. Maybe something with more deadly combat and social mechanisms.Roger G-Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08594440701279968693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-29665059886398177262012-06-04T15:56:16.441-04:002012-06-04T15:56:16.441-04:00I know there is a D20 version of A song of Ice &am...I know there is a D20 version of A song of Ice & Fire floating around; but actually, I imagine something like the Chaosium Basic System better suited...porphyre77https://www.blogger.com/profile/07620350717226228078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-13065418177048605222012-06-04T14:48:19.000-04:002012-06-04T14:48:19.000-04:00http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/wp-content/upl...http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/westeros-complete.pngThe Banehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07618418974424858748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-44719765970537437422012-06-04T14:24:36.789-04:002012-06-04T14:24:36.789-04:00Wow, after finishing the first book and first seri...Wow, after finishing the first book and first series of the show, I can't wait to delve off into book 2 / season 2.<br /><br />I have mulled over trying to get a similar style game going with our group but I think the D&D troupes might be to finely engrained. =(<br /><br />I am still thinking about doing a purely human E6 (or E5 if I use Pathfinder Beginners Box) of the setting via some form of PbX media. I even remember seeing a hex version of the map. Perhaps on Hexographer? Especially now that I have Book of River Nations as a starting point!<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for getting me back into the thought process for making this happen!<br /><br />Best,<br />TBThe Banehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07618418974424858748noreply@blogger.com