tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post2240421803171284924..comments2024-03-25T22:48:31.750-04:00Comments on Dreams in the Lich House: Why the Monster Manual is ImportantJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-88766111070684595202011-10-17T16:52:50.885-04:002011-10-17T16:52:50.885-04:00Interesting post. You are definitely right on at ...Interesting post. You are definitely right on at least one count from where I sit: when we started going for what we considered more realistic story-telling in our AD&D1e games (when we went off to college), the first thing we dumped was XP. Advancement was slowed, and happened according to when it seemed right. I'm still not certain, however, that D&DAW is that narrow of a beast.Theodric the Obscurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18201793290118146978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-85790336316019862172011-10-11T22:38:57.023-04:002011-10-11T22:38:57.023-04:00Here's the solution: Lead with NPCs. See how ...Here's the solution: Lead with NPCs. See how fast they get killed off. Instant guage of challenge level.<br /><br />Red tunics optional.Uncle Darkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15153259977898899885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-29736739828469189072011-10-11T13:54:24.546-04:002011-10-11T13:54:24.546-04:00Yep, that's it exactly - a sandbox requires in...Yep, that's it exactly - a sandbox requires informed player choice or decisions are arbitrary. People decry the meta game knowledge inherent in bestiaries that have been published for a long time ("No fair, my players know that trolls hate fire!") but as I consider players evaluating information in the a sandbox setting, I've noticed there's a real benefit to being able to gauge challenge levels, as well.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-43573602360340356252011-10-11T13:19:46.253-04:002011-10-11T13:19:46.253-04:00Seems to me that the question here goes back to me...Seems to me that the question here goes back to meaningful, informed player choice, yeah? And whether or not removing the meta-game tool of "everybody's familiar with the monster manual" impairs that choice?<br /><br />In which case, it's just a question of how you go about cluing the players in on the relative power of a monster.<br /><br />One thing that occurs to me is to rely on the old stand by "ass kicking equals authority" idea, that says prominent NPCs have levels. So if we know that the weird monster broke into the mead-hall and killed the local baron and his retainers, you know we're dealing with something that can take out a 9th level fighter and his war-band. 2nd level noobs, move along.Uncle Darkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15153259977898899885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-22310201136956836012011-10-11T04:04:09.481-04:002011-10-11T04:04:09.481-04:00Very inspiring! I've also often been of the mi...Very inspiring! I've also often been of the mindset to avoid standard creatures, and to create nameless & unidentifiable things for the players to face.<br /><br />I think perhaps a nice middle way is to kind of "re-skin" standard monsters, while keeping the stats and the name the same. That way the players can estimate the danger level of something that the local villagers call a gnoll, even if it looks like a black hairy demon rather than a humanoid hyena.Gavin Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12362875699031245377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-74484899713197487382011-10-10T20:42:26.084-04:002011-10-10T20:42:26.084-04:00Great, great post and the last one as well.Great, great post and the last one as well.UWS guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01277557128674527225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-18440756771200804442011-10-10T20:15:08.373-04:002011-10-10T20:15:08.373-04:00I don't think this is an either/or. In fact, I...I don't think this is an either/or. In fact, I think "weird" creatures are actually made more so by contrast with the standard bestiary, as long as that bestiary is not overused.Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-838069428966297192011-10-10T14:36:50.866-04:002011-10-10T14:36:50.866-04:00I'm still working through different ways playe...I'm still working through different ways players could differentiate risks in the 'weird setting' when given a bevy of choices up front; that's why it struck me that a traditional bestiary has this unforeseen property of transparency.<br /><br />You've certainly hit on one approach, which is either embellish the plot hooks with sufficient detail that they can be categorized according to threat levels, or allow some research. I'm thinking through a few more other approaches as well.<br /><br />In a D&D micro-setting, geography plays a large role; the lower the dungeon level, the greater the danger, or the further away from the home base, the greater the danger.<br /><br />I don't know as that simplistic approach helps in the wide area sandbox, where one adventure could be the coast France, the next a Greek isle, the next in Alpine Italy. Researching far flung opportunities is more trouble as well.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4353391426294254427.post-91943640239936318402011-10-10T13:36:42.669-04:002011-10-10T13:36:42.669-04:00Actually, I don't see a flaw. All that's ...Actually, I don't see a flaw. All that's happened is that the player group has to do a little more research before committing to dealing with any particular threat. Sure, they don't know right off, from previous play experience, what the "dead thing" is, but a little asking around town will give them enough info to plan for a first scouting of the area.<br /><br />Thing is, the Weird Fantasy setting is antithetical to the Known Hierarchy of Monsters. It's not knowing what the hell that thing is that helps provide the feeling of the unknown involved with the weird. You're trading off one of the advantages of classic D&D play for one of the advantages of Weird Fantasy play.Uncle Darkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15153259977898899885noreply@blogger.com