Context: A gigantic, multi-level dungeon, where dungeon level = monster level.
Problem: Why do creatures of the same relative power level congregate on the same dungeon level?
Answer: The dungeon represents an estuary, a confluence of diametric forces - Chaos and Law. The very deepest sections of the dungeon open upon otherworldly vistas and allow the forces of Chaos to bleed into the world; the surface bathes in the light of the sun, the ultimate symbol of Law. The dungeon is a brackish mix of diminishing Law and increasing Chaos the deeper it extends.
The powerful magical monsters and creatures of Chaos can only freely exist in the depths of the dungeon, closer to the source of ultimate Chaos. Each level they ascend brings them closer to Law and increases their discomfort; at most, such creatures will normally be found a maximum of 1-2 dungeon levels above their normal encounter level, returning to the depths at the first opportunity.
Likewise, the increasing power level of the denizens of the dungeon depths places a limit on how deep surface dwellers can penetrate the dungeon depths before the danger overwhelms them.
I'm not sure how far I can ride this particular metaphor, but I was looking for a solution as to why orcs live on level 1, and gnolls on level 2, and ogres on level 3, and the ogres sometimes raid level 1 and 2, but have their permanent lairs on level 3, and so on.
This idea that Chaos and Law drives each other away can be taken beyond the dungeon, too. Creatures of Chaos have free reign on the surface during the hours of night, when the withering eye of the sun is hidden away. Chaotic fairy magic melts with the coming dawn, and the undead return to their graveyards and tombs before the first ray of sun.
I keep hearing "Night on Bald Mountain" melting away into "Ave Maria" when I think of it this way, but that's just me. I've seen Disney's Fantasia movies over and over again.
I like this idea.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant! It answers the question of monsters sorted by level, it is plausible, and it is creepy as hell.
ReplyDeleteIt may not be a perfect answer, but I want it to be.
Thanks! One of the mega dungeons kicking around here is "Death Mountain", a Greek-myth-themed dungeon where the bottom is the River Styx, Hades, and the pit of Tartarus. Another is "Harrow Home Manor", where the lowest level holds the Black Cyst - an egg holding the embryonic form of a godling from the antimatter universe.
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible for me to completely avoid rationalism so I need to at least develop rational magical explanations for why the world conforms to the game logic.
This fits right in with Philotomy's musings on the mythic underworld and its structure, so you're in good company, at least.
ReplyDeleteI want to add that this also fits with my campaign world's conceit that dungeon traps can improve in level based on being fed, so the malevolent almost alive dungeon fits with the further down the less like the surface world things get, which also fits into the world being built on the dead/not-dead remains of the last world's gods.
ReplyDeleteIsn't this how Diablo unfolded?
ReplyDeleteAwesome concept. I remembered reading about another explication of the Chaos/Deep and Law/Sun elsewhere so thought I'd search for it and link it here to maybe further the conversation. Quick trip to the OSR Search utility and lo and behold! I read it here! Some nice ideas in the comments of the earlier thread, particularly the relationship of the core of the earth to the sun. http://dreamsinthelichhouse.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-quotable-cosmology.html
ReplyDeleteThat one's really good - it's always been kicking around in the back of my head. Re-reading it, the explanation of danger levels and treasure levels is all right in that earlier post; previously I think I focused more on the interesting explanations for Elves and Dwarves. P&P is a genius. I'm on board the Chaos Dungeon bandwagon.
DeleteA Quotable Cosmology
Well done! A prime explanation of 'Holmesian Unnaturalism'!
ReplyDeleteI like your thinking and think this fits nicely into "dungeon of mythic underworld" and sprinkles in some monomyth. Also, I think there is an aspect of real estate practicality regarding where monsters live. Closer to the surface is more dangerous - it puts the monsters closer to sunlight and enemies (Men, forces of Law, adventurers). The more powerful monsters push the weaker monsters into the more dangerous, less desirable levels closer to the surface.
ReplyDeletei think this makes sense - monsters should be rated according to lv, also beings closer to surface more connected with natural world and more able to interact with it while weird and powerful have more limits as more unatural
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me to the RPGnet forum's setting riff Voices from Below and the Long Stairs, in which is often described that the physical laws change gradually when you go deeper and deeper. Hence, deep level denizens can't survive for long in the upper levels and vice versa.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting that - I don't pay attention to the big purple, but that is a really awesome thread and just a generally cool idea all around.
DeleteIf I ever get the urge to run a dungeon crawl in the modern world...
I love this concept. I've been pondering whether it would be a good setting for ACKS - Heroic Fantasy.
ReplyDelete