Tuesday, January 11, 2011

Religion and Clerics

I've seen some thoughtful posts lately about religion and D&D - JB over at B/X Blackrazor and then over at Fr Dave's place.  JB inquires why religion is given such short shrift in RPG's, and Fr Dave provides examples from his own game of religious practices and beliefs having a pivotal role.

Why is religion so often overlooked?  Well, take a second and consider what it would require to have a meaningful religion in your D&D game; to make it seem real, the DM would be required to create beliefs, practices, observances, feasts, the religious hierarchy, and the modes of worship.  That's a lot of work.
Games that feature a monotheistic church can draw on practices of the real world religions and have a huge advantage - most of that stuff is done for you.  Unfortunately, raiding modern-day religious practices for game grist can tread on sensitive ground, depending on how it's done, and the views of the players.

A priest of the beloved Elway leads followers on the holy day.
Meanwhile, I've yet to see a polytheistic approach that had religions reach that level of depth; most of the time, the cleric in a polytheistic game is a cheerleader or fan for his deity - the D&D equivalent of this guy over here.

Polytheism has other problems.  The cleric class is more or less a Christian templar with a mash-up of Van Helsing.  The blunt edged weapons, the turn undead, the list of spells mostly from Judeo-Christian miracles; I don't remember that kind of stuff in Greek or Norse myth.

Heck, can anyone point me to a non-Christian "cleric" in any of D&D's source fiction?  (Buehler, buehler?)  So far, I've encountered Christian clerics in Three Hearts and Three Lions, The Broken Sword, The King of Elf Land's Daughter; while there isn't any Turn Undead, there's plenty of using holy words to drive back monsters and the creatures of Fairy.  This would be kind of funny -  the DM announces, "Yes, your  turn attempt is successful, the ghouls are fleeing.  And the party's elf and gnome run away for 3-12 rounds".
It seems the various published settings of D&D have all been polytheistic and ignored developing the religious practices.   If I want some inspiration from real-world polytheism, I might go check out my copy of The Golden Bough, with all it's lurid sacrifices.  Yeah, I can understand why 80's game designers didn't go there.  Maybe a study of Hinduism and other religions in the far East might provide some more useful approaches to adding depth to a polytheistic setting?

The cleric presents other problems too, if you start thinking about it too hard… For instance, if you're going to make the cleric believe in something, and they're granted powers by a higher being as evidence of their beliefs, isn't the DM kind of obligated to adjudicate behavior?  Yikes, that's kind of messy.  I thought this was supposed to be fun?  Of course, if you want some *real* fun - go to any AD&D 1E message board and start a post about how to manage alignment in 1st Edition (don't forget to say, "by the book", or ask about the treatment of prisoners).  Good times.

Then there's the healing problem.  What changes does magical healing and Raise Dead have on the campaign world?  Should you calculate your societal demographics, what percentage of folks are clergy, what is their range of levels, to get a sense on how prevalent are certain spells in the world?  That can be a bit messy too (though I love it as a thought exercise).

O god of cheese, grant us victory, and brauts.




At the end of the day, it's just so much easier to make the cleric like this guy with the funny hat.

13 comments:

  1. This pretty much coincides with my observations on the topic.

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  2. I have gotten some good traction out of giving a little bit of ritual to polytheism. Like a sacrificial ritual, a weekly meeting, etc.

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  3. Unfortunately, raiding modern-day religious practices for game grist can tread on sensitive ground, depending on how it's done, and the views of the players.

    I have never understood this argument. If it isn't offensive to go around claiming to be a cheerleader for Thor, why is it offensive to be one for a fantasy pseudo-Christianity? In truth, as a Christian I am more offended by a polytheistic campaign than a pseudo Christian one...

    if you're going to make the cleric believe in something, and they're granted powers by a higher being as evidence of their beliefs, isn't the DM kind of obligated to adjudicate behavior?

    No, you are not — in the same way that God doesn't adjudicate the extreme powers He has given humanity through science. These things are gifts given to human beings who have been made in the image and likeness of God. This means we have free will to use these gifts for good or ill. God doesn't mess with free will because it would destroy His creation — it would deny the image and likeness. All a DM has to do is figure out what the natural consequences of behavior would normally be. If you go around using a gun (which in magical terms would be a spell) to kill people, there are a bunch of other people that are going to hunt you down and either kill you in revenge or throw you in jail or both. Remember, in OD&D Clerics (which are pseudo-Christian) had to choose between being Lawful or Chaotic by 7th level...

    At the end of the day, it's just so much easier to make the cleric like this guy with the funny hat.

    That might be, but it takes a lot of the fun out of things.

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  4. "Maybe a study of Hinduism and other religions in the far East might provide some more useful approaches to adding depth to a polytheistic setting?"

    In my current campaign, I use Shinto-like polytheism, where religious practices are tied to countless local shrines, which are not generally in competition. It seems to work pretty well. Clerics have home temples, but a lot of day-to-day clericing involves knowing to which spirit to appeal for a particular problem, or which shrine to visit.

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  5. Good comments.

    @FrDave: the position I described in the post is my observation of games in general, not my preferred approach; I'll be posting some notes on how I've handled monotheism in Gothic Greyhawk a bit later. Would love to hear your thoughts when I get it out there; I enjoy reading how you've reconciled faith and gaming.

    @Greg, Paul: I agree having some simple practices can help round out a polytheistic approach, if you're going that way. "On Sundays, the believers gather around special fire pits to drink beer and char sausages as part of the communal meal..."

    I think I've convinced myself, if I do a polytheistic setting, it'll all be built on sports metaphors.

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  6. @Beedo

    I'll be posting some notes on how I've handled monotheism in Gothic Greyhawk a bit later.

    I look forward to it...

    I think I've convinced myself, if I do a polytheistic setting, it'll all be built on sports metaphors.

    In that case, I call dibs on following the beloved Elway ;)

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  7. God loves the Broncos; that's why sunsets were created to be blue and orange.

    If only the current incarnation of the team could get back into a state of grace. In Tebow we trust.

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  8. I currently like my settings the same way Paul does: animistic, with a vast multitude of local Spirits rather than a pantheon of omniscient Gods. (look here for my musings on the subject: http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3067).

    This way, religion becomes personal. Instead of being a "generic cleric", you become a Shaman, a mediator between Mortals and Spirits. While Shamans do have spellcasting abilities - learned from various Spirits - the most significant part of religion is actually dealing with many small, local Spirits - who are, essentially NPCs with certain divine powers.

    Another cool thing about this approach is that everyone - EVERYONE - can practice religion *in game* by interacting with Spirits. Through good role-playing, even the burly Fighter might be able to convince the local Rusalka to heal him or enable him to Breath Water for a duration, or make a major sacrifice to a mighty Dragon (Dragons are Spirits in my campaign) to get it to unleash an earthquake on an enemy's fortress!

    Shamans, of course, are *better* at dealing with spirits, but EVERYONE has some chance of dealing with them.

    It should be a refreshing change from the D&D norms.

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  9. @Beedo:
    I'm sure there IS a God of Cheese somewhere! And Bottlewashing. And Internet Porn. And And SO On. Like American Gods by Neil Gaiman.

    @FrDave:
    'In truth, as a Christian I am more offended by a polytheistic campaign than a pseudo Christian one...':
    Wow. You're the only Christian I've ever seen/heard say this. I gamed with quite a few, who even played Clerics of Pagan Gods(not real world mythologies like Hinduism, Norse, Judaism, some flavor of Christianity)in the game setting! Weird. I would've thought you'd be relieved to not have your Deity in the game , I mean D&D Gods have stats!:-) (That'd be quite an argument, just coming up with the Holy Spririt's attributes! Even Aquinas couldn't do that!) No-one's ever seen my favorite God, so Hir Stats can't be quantified: being Invisible, Pink, and a Unicorn! Maybe a Unicorn with -4 to hit?

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  10. I currently like my settings the same way Paul does: animistic, with a vast multitude of local Spirits rather than a pantheon of omniscient Gods...

    I really like these ideas (for the right kind of setting). While it superficially removes divine elements, it leaves the door open for there being something beyond the spirit world... ie, where did it all come from? Or maybe I just have a thing for Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away (and the Kamigawa Block in M:tG). Where's the retro-clone of Oriental Adventures Done Right?

    My personal hangups are that I try to leave the classes as intact as possible, and I'd rather adopt familiar / pseudo-real-world settings and put my creative energies into story; I don't think I can handle Sword & Planet or EPT.

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  11. Where's the retro-clone of Oriental Adventures Done Right?:
    Ha. Ha. Can't get me, man! Trick Question: Oriental Adventures can't be done right!

    Story:
    Hm. I just create a setting with Deities, nations, secret factions and scheming NPCs populating same. Then the PCs are plopped in and all the machinations b/w these components provide the stories.(PCs love to be those Wild Cards!)

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  12. Good discussion. As I was reading this it suddenly occurred to me that one group of "real world" clerics of a polytheistic religion have had been represented in D&D for a long time - Druids.

    Most games present Druids as priests of nature rather than followers of a specific deity, but the real druids were the religious leaders of a polytheistic faith with - pardon the pun - God knows how many deities. It makes for an interesting example: the Celts had numerous divinities with widely varying cult practices, but in many regions they seem to have been served by a single religious class or caste.

    Something like this might be better represented by having clerics represent "churches" (as in the Palladium FRPG) as opposed to individual deities. Different assemblages of deities will be worshipped by different "churches" and many will be venerated by more than one "church." The importance and interpretation of a single deity will also vary from church to church.

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  13. @JBM - I agree with you what you're saying. Most of the 'priest fighting' in real world literature seems to involve monotheistic faiths; I can see rolling up pagan deities into a single "church".

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